The first one to teach Heliocentrism as a genuine scientific theory is a CATHOLIC PRIEST AND SCIENTIST Nicolaus Copernicus.

The first one to teach Heliocentrism as a genuine scientific theory is a CATHOLIC PRIEST AND SCIENTIST Nicolaus Copernicus.

April Frivaldo

Sen. Santiago: Today is the time for #rhbill. In antiquity, the Church committed grave mistakes. It is not perfect, it is only human.

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

Sen. Santiago isn’t perfect either. She committed a monumental blunder when she said that Copernicus was tortured for postulating heliocentrism. Copernicus was never tortured. He is a Catholic priest. His book “On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres” in which he discussed in detail his theory of heliocentrism, was in fact, dedicated to Pope Paul III. Heliocentrism was freely taught in Catholic Universities before Galileo’s time. On the invitation of Pope Clement VII, Albert Widmanstadt even conducted lecture on heliocentrism in the Vatican. Galileo’s “Letters on Sunspots” in which he adopted the Copernican system was positively received among the people in the Church including Cardinal Barberini who later became Pope Urban VIII. You see, the Church is very tolerant of heliocentrism even though it was just a theory at that time. Protestants, led by Luther and Calvin were the ones opposing heliocentrism because they cling to a strict literal interpretation of the Scriptures. They opposed Kepler, who is himself a protestant, because of his work on heliocentrism. It’s the Church who received Kepler and allowed him to teach in a Catholic University.

 

April Frivaldo

Franz Luigi Lugena Nobody said PRO RH people are perfect. As what Sen. Enrile said there’s no certitude as to where the truth lies. Only time will tell. And I didn’t say Sen. Santiago is perfect just by saying so.

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

I’m not saying that you said that Sen. Santiago is perfect. What I’m saying is that Sen.

Santiago is not perfect as evidenced by the fact that her statements on the supposed torture of Copernicus is not true. I checked my books and they belied Sen. Santiago’s opinions.

 

April Frivaldo

We are not here to discuss who committed grave mistakes between two opposing parties. The votes says it all. Now that this bill has been passed, I hope that the priests & church leaders will lead by showing sportsmanship in accepting RH Bill & STOP saying that those who voted for RH are corrupt and anti life.

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

I’m not even talking about the result of the votation. I just pointed out that Sen. Santiago committed an error. Copernicus was never tortured. Even Galileo was never tortured. Sen. Santiago is clearly peddling lies to put the Church in a bad light.

 

April Frivaldo

Franz Luigi Lugena I don’t think the poorest of the poor families in our country wouldn’t know or care about the story of Copernicus or Galileo. Besides Sen. Santiago is just 1 vote. 12 other Senators voted in favor of RH. But anyway, your point is taken.

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

Whether poor families know about Copernicus or not is beside the point. The point is, I happen to know Copernicus and Sen. Santiago is clearly not telling the truth when she said that Copernicus was tortured for postulating heliocentrism. Imagine, a senator lying in open television just to undermine the Church?

  

April Frivaldo

Is she the only one? No one is righteous. Have you seen the priest featured on TV because of his unethical behavior as a priest because he was videotaped in a nightclub with a lady then preaches on Sundays as if he did nothing wrong during the week & take note it didn’t happen just once but several times. We could go on & on proving our points but that wouldn’t matter. I am just so overwhelmed that RH Bill made it despite d chauvinistic & degrading testimonies of others.

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

That priest you are talking about DISOBEYED the teachings of the Church that’s why he was able to commit such action. Why blame the Church? Abusus non tollit usum. Abuses perpetrated by people in the Church do not invalidate the Church. Sen. Santiago on the other hand brazenly lied in open television that the Church tortured Copernicus and Galileo. That never happened. She just aped old recycled anti-Catholic propaganda to discredit the Church when in fact she made a fool out of herself. The RH Bill managed to pass the third reading because of pressures from Malacanang. If Malacanang only allowed Congress to freely deliberate the matter on its own, I doubt RH Bill will manage to pass even the second reading.

 

With regards to alleged chauvinistic testimonies of the others you are talking about, I’m not aware of that. There is no chauvinism in going against the RH Bill. In fact, anti RH Bill is pro women. It’ the women who will get the shorter end of the stick in the RH Bill: Sino sinasaksakan ng injection? Sino pinapainom ng pills? Sino nilalagyan ng IUDs? Sino nakakaranas ng mga negative side effects gaya ng breast cancers, heart attacks, strokes, at infections? Puro babae. Sino nasasarapan? Lalaki. And you talk about chauvinism? If the government will only be true to its inherent mandate to protect public health and welfare, there is no need for the RH Bill. Besides we have existing laws mandating the provision of maternal health care. Eh wala eh. Brinaso eh. It really cheapens democracy.

 

April Frivaldo

Well that is your opinion and I’ll respect that. Like what I’ve said being a woman & a mother myself I am glad that this bill has been passed regardless of other people’s opinion. Cliché but we are all entitled to one. Merry Christmas Franz Luigi Lugena.

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

Well, I also respect your opinion. Thanks for the discussion. Merry Christmas too.

 

Wilfredo E. Discaya

Lets not argue about opinions. If you want facts GO BACK TO THE MEDIEVAL HISTORY & THE RENNAISANCE PERIOD. There, you will be enlightened & clearly understood: WHAT IS A ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH? The Catholic Priests want freedom but they could not detached from their DOGMA… Their only defense is the Words of God according to their own interpretation of the BIBLE. My concern is the universal wisdom that man differs because of FREEWILL.

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

@Wilbert E. Discaya

The claim of Sen. Santiago that Copernicus and Galileo were tortured by the Church because of heliocentrism is a fallacious opinion. The Church never tortured Copernicus and Galileo. This is just a lie recycled time and again to put the Church in the bad light, being repressive and anti-scientific. But if you will just care to review your history, most of advancements in science, art, music, and philosophy were done by Church clerics and laymen, not atheist and not Protestants. To say that the Church tortured Copernicus and Galileo is a cheap attempt to twist facts and deceive the people. Read my first post on this issue.

 

You talk about freedom, well the Church values freedom both spiritually and physically. That’s why it doesn’t confine itself to spirituality in the midst of injustices and abuses. The Church fought and outlasted repressive regimes throughout history. The Church fought Marcos when he declared martial law and the Church worked tirelessly for the restoration of democracy in the country culminating in EDSA. Protestants and atheists pale in comparison to what the Church had done.

 

You said the Church couldn’t detach from dogma, why would the Church do that? To do that is to abandon truth. To paraphrase what St. Jose Maria Escriva said, if you have the truth, why compromise? [The Way, 395] The whole country of England separated itself from the Church in 16th century due to the issue of divorce. What makes you think the Church will now change its anti artificial contraceptive stance just because there are a few loud groups who are just calling for it? The Church teachings on these issues remain unchanged. The Church is just being consistent with its teachings. Protestants on the other hand, flip flopped in their contraceptive stance starting in 1930s. They also flip flopped on divorce, abortion, same sex marriage, etc.

 

About the Church’s interpretation of the bible, what’s wrong with believing the official interpretation of the bible? The Church was founded by Christ and was given authority to bind and to loose [Matthew 16:18-19] which means the Church has the power to decide on matters of faith and morals, and that includes interpreting the bible. The bible is a Catholic book. It was written by Catholics Saints, gathered and compiled by Church during the Synod of Rome [382AD] and Council of Carthage [397AD]. The Church arranged the books from Genesis to Revelation, put chapters and verses in it, and the first to print it in 1456. The Bible is indeed a Catholic book. That’s why it should be interpreted in the light of the Church’s teachings. Other interpretations, especially those of Protestants are just private opinions.

 

With regards to free will, the Church values free will. As St. Paul said “whenever there is the Spirit, there is freedom.” [2 Cor3:17] This is the reason why the Church is not like some man-made churches today which force its members to tithe or donate specific amount of money, no block voting, no monitoring of mass attendance via DTRs, no forbidden foods, etc. There is freedom in the Church that’s why there are Catholics who can disobey the Church. The Church teaches that conscience must be free. But in the same manner, it must be enlightened by the Word of God and guided by the teachings of the Church because conscience can be corrupted. [CCC#1785] Remember that even terrorists have conscience too. Remove God in the picture, then everything will be permitted. That’s the danger of moral relativism.

 

Wilfredo E. Discaya

Very fluent speech. Congratulations….Tell us also about Martin Luther… Its difficult to argue about religion it will take time. In as much as we are in the democracy, respect the decision of the majority.

 

April Frivaldo

Sir Wilfredo E. Discaya i just want to laugh. No pun intended whatsoever. Franz Luigi Lugena no need to defend the Church.. Catholic or not, respect is a two way thing. If the Catholic leaders are quick to judge those who defy their so called “orders” then they themselves should be open to criticisms may it be a fact or fallacy. If you hate Sen. Santiago that much then fine I suggest you post on her twitter account. I’m sure all your allegations will be answered by her. I said allegations merely because I don’t know Sen. Santiago’s side nor will I ever be interested in finding the truth behind the issue of Santiago’s claim against the Church. There are better things to do than to point our fingers to those who have sinned. We are not the judge to that.

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

Well, Martin Luther together with other Protestant leaders such as Melanchton and Calvin opposed Copernicus and heliocentrism. This is what Martin Luther said on heliocentrism:

 

“There is talk of a new astrologer who wants to prove that the earth moves and goes around instead of the sky, the sun, the moon, just as if somebody were moving in a carriage or ship might hold that he was sitting still and at rest while the earth and the trees walked and moved. But that is how things are nowadays: when a man wishes to be clever he must . . . invent something special, and the way he does it must needs be the best! The fool wants to turn the whole art of astronomy upside-down. However, as Holy Scripture tells us, so did Joshua bid the sun to stand still and not the earth.”

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism

 

Protestants opposed heliocentrism because they cling on strict literal interpretation of the scriptures. They opposed other scientists who worked on heliocentrism. These include Kepler who is himself a protestant, for working on heliocentrism. In fact the Protestant Faculty of the University of Tubingen declared Kepler’s book as damnable heresy. This forced Kepler to flee his country. It’s the Church which received Kepler and allowed him to teach in a Catholic university. You see, it’s the Church that is more tolerant on heliocentrism even though it is just a theory at that time contrary to the prevailing belief of everyone, the scientific community included, on geocentrism. So Sen. Santiago is barking at the wrong dog. She should vent her attacks on protestants instead.

 

You said we are in the democracy and we have to respect the decision of the majority well, the RH bill was not decided via referendum. It was decided by lawmakers who were subjected into unreasonable pressures and bullying tactics of Malacanang. So how can you say that the RH Bill is the decision of the majority? If Malacanang had not intervened, and just allow the Congress to freely deliberate the bill on its own, I doubt if your bill can manage to pass the second reading.

 

April Frivaldo

Don’t stress yourself copying and pasting these Franz. Looks like you wallow because of the result of RH Bill then I am sorry. The bill has been passed no sense crying over spilled milk.

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

I’m not crying over spilt milk. Your friend asked me to tell something about Luther. I just obliged, replete with cited information. What’s the fuss? I didn’t fabricate it.

 

April Frivaldo

Nothing. You’ve been mentioning about Malacañang’s bullying tactics. That’s not part of Luther King. Anyway God bless!

 

Franz Luigi Lugena

And your friend is not even talking about Martin Luther King but Martin Luther, the former Catholic monk turned protestant. There are reports on Malacanang’s meddling on RH bill deliberation in Congress. We have a saying, If there’s smoke, there’s fire. I just can’t believe Malacanang didn’t exert any pressures on lawmakers. Perhaps, the threat of pork barrel deprivation made the difference. lolz God bless you too!

  

Franz Luigi Lugena

 [April Frivaldo: Sir Wilfredo E. Discaya i just want to laugh. No pun intended whatsoever. Franz Luigi Lugena no need to defend the Church.. Catholic or not, respect is a two way thing. If the Catholic leaders are quick to judge those who defy their so called “orders” then they themselves should be open to criticisms may it be a fact or fallacy. If you hate Sen. Santiago that much then fine I suggest you post on her twitter account. I’m sure all your allegations will be answered by her. I said allegations merely because I don’t know Sen. Santiago’s side nor will I ever be interested in finding the truth behind the issue of Santiago’s claim against the Church. There are better things to do than to point our fingers to those who have sinned. We are not the judge to that.]

 

I can’t recall any instance when our priests passed judgment on pro RH people. Our priests will not pass judgments because that is something reserve only to God. We can only hope as to the eternal destiny of man and we always hope for mercy and salvation. Furthermore, I don’t hate Sen. Santiago. I just can’t convince myself to buy her lies on the supposed torture of Galileo and Copernicus by the Church. I also don’t have any interest in creating a twitter account just to gloat on Sen. Santiago’s faux pas on Copernicus. But if ever I have a chance of talking with her and she tell me the same lie, I will definitely answer: “I’m sorry madam Senator, but my books don’t agree with your opinions.” Lastly, with regards to your statement that that there are better things to do than pointing Sen. Santiago’s lies, well that’s precisely the reason why myths such as the torture of Galileo and Copernicus persisted through our time. No one bothers to refute or expose it. Lies told repeatedly and unchallenged become gospel truth through time. We need to stamp out every lies at the first opportunity. As St. Paul said: “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.” [Ephesians 5:11]

 

Wilfredo E. Discaya Franz Luigi Lugena youre a smart guy and I appreciate your readings. No arguement

about religion for you know the reasons. I hope you & sen Santiago meet. Merry Christmas…

 

April Frivaldo Why bother when you are there to point it out? Good luck with your endeavors.