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Below is the first part of my conversation with a Calvinist – a young, yet arrogant anti-Catholic fellow. Let us read below our arguments as we talked about on a topic ranging from the “Church” to “Sola Scriptura”. His words are in red while mine are in black.

THE CLAIM

[David Barker: It’s not my “Claim.” The argument I am making is that the Catholic Church is an occult religion, and contradicts Biblical teaching in many, many different ways. The Catholic Church is not the Christian Church mentioned in the New Testament, and nothing about the Catholic Church makes it a Christian Church, other than they claim to worship Christ.]

What made you say that it is an occult religion? What Biblical teachings did the Catholic Church contradict? Please expound why do you say that the Catholic Church is not the Christian Church mentioned in the Bible? Do you believe that without John Calvin, your church and her doctrines wouldn’t have existed?

[The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?]

THE ANSWERS

[there are no doctrines for the Christian church outside of the Bible. Catholics are brainwashed to believe it is either catholic or protestant. Catholic religion is anything but scriptural]

On the contrary, the Catholic Church is very Biblical and all her doctrines can be found and deduced in the Bible. Be reminded that she was the responsible for the canon of scriptures. She gathered them and purged them from other writings that also claim to be inspired and finally bound them into a single Book. You must be here to claim your church is scriptural however everything that you said seems otherwise. You accuse without scriptural basis. How then can you convince me that yourcanon contentions too are scriptural? Additionally, where in the Bible that claims that “there are no doctrines for the Christian church outside of the Bible”? How do you propose to answer if ask what are the basis for a letter (epistle) to be called scripture? How did they come up with 27 Books in the New Testament? I need chapter and verse…

[The Roman Catholic Church contends that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30. The Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles. In the New Testament, there is no mention of the papacy, worship/adoration of Mary (or the immaculate conception of Mary, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the assumption of Mary, or Mary as co-redemptrix and mediatrix), petitioning saints in heaven for their prayers, apostolic succession, the ordinances of the church functioning as sacraments, infant baptism, confession of sin to a priest, purgatory, indulgences, or the equal authority of church tradition and Scripture. So, if the origin of the Catholic Church is not in the teachings of Jesus and His apostles, as recorded in the New Testament, what is the true origin of the Catholic Church?]

I answer: Where did you hear or read that the Catholic Church teaches that its origin is the death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ in approximately AD 30?

You said, “the Catholic Church proclaims itself to be the church that Jesus Christ died for, the church that was established and built by the apostles. Is that the true origin of the Catholic Church? On the contrary. Even a cursory reading of the New Testament will reveal that the Catholic Church does not have its origin in the teachings of Jesus or His apostles.”

That is the problem of just making a cursory reading. You will likely fail to understand that it is there. Our stand for the foundation of the Church is very Biblical and logical as well. The early Christians are the first Christians. The first Christians are Catholics {e.g. Only the Catholic Church was thriving in Rome (Rom. 1:6) and Spain (Rom 15:24;28) even at present}. Therefore the early Christians are Catholics.

It was also attested by the disciple of St. John the apostle, Ignatius (d. 107 AD), the Bishop of Antioch, when he wrote his epistles to the Smyrnaeans: “Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the Catholicmultitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the CATHOLIC CHURCH” (The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans, chap. viii). Even as early as the first century, the Christian church was already called Catholic Church.

You are absolutely wrong, David, when you said that the church teaches that she was established and built by the apostles. The Holy Bible tells us that it is Jesus who founded the Church. He said to Peter, “And now I say to you: You are Peter (or Rock) and on this rock I will build my Church; and never will the powers of death overcome it” (Mt 16:18 Dhouay-Rheims). In these words, Jesus is the wise builder (Wise man) who builds his house on a rock so that when calamities may arise against this house it will never fail (Mt 7:24). The church therefore is designed to withstand the test of time so much so that from the time of the apostles until the present time, she is still present and visible. Was your church present before 1517, the year when the reformation started? Was it present before John Calvin? I don’t think so however if your answer is yes then give me some names of people or pastors of your church (or the real Christians as you would like to call yourself) during those times.

I will deal one by one with your protests sometime later. But just as I answer your questions, you must answer mine. I hope you and I shall deal these things with charity. “If I had prophecy, knowing secret things with all kinds of knowledge, and had faith great enough to remove mountains, but had no love, I would be nothing” (1Cor 13:2).

SOLA SCRIPTURA – A MAN MADE TRADITION

[you shall not add or take away from anything written in this book. that is why i say the only doctrines for church is to come from the Bible. secondly the catholic church did not compile the Bible, while some did help copy and save scripture, just as hundreds of other groups and scribes did, the catholic church has no extra hand in helping. try to get your information from something other than catholic sources. youre quote about ignatius is not found in the Bible, nor is his name mentioned, and is therefore to be discredited, since it goes against scripture. your quotes from the Bible, such as romans 1:6, have nothing to do with the catholic church, paul wrote letters to the early christian churches, in rome, in tarsus, in ephesus, there is nothing about catholicism in the bible. this is simply more of the same – the catholics reading scripture out of context to try and mesh it with their beliefs. your conclusion “therefore the early christians were catholics” is baseless and untrue. it is not founded on scripture. The christian church was established by Christ, not john calvin. any church that does not follow scripture is not a christian church, plain and simple. the word pope is not found in the Bible, neither are the rest of the traditions practiced by the catholic church that i have shared. the catholic church is a pagan religion which does not follow scripture, but instead intentionally mock the scriptures, doing just the opposite of what was intended.]

Don’t bring your hear-says here my friend. If you are a true believer then cite any references from your quotes otherwise we can boil these things down as “old-wives tales” which St. Paul exhorts us to reject, “Reject irreligious fables and OLD WIVES’ TALES” (1Tim 4:7). I am not actually amaze because you are still young and maybe it’s the reason why you believe on these tales hehehe… Your religious hatred though seems like the feeling of Islamic extremist against other religion. Are you a convert from this group?

Anyway, you haven’t answered my questions above. You want me to answer yours but you refused to answer mine… That’s hypocrisy my friend. Like the Pharisees of old, you throw your questions but refused to hear the answers but when questions are thrown back to you, you became silent exactly like what the Pharisees did before. I will deal with one topic at a time.

Since you are claiming that the “Bible alone” (Sola Scriptura) is the sole authority for teaching then prove it to us. You haven’t given me any verses above but I know that you have quoted the Book of Revelation when you said, “you shall not add or take away from anything written in this book” which we can find in the Book of Revelation chapter 22 verses 18 to 19. The exact words are the following, “As for me, I warn everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will pile on him the plagues described in this BOOK. And if anyone takes away words from this BOOK OF PROPHECY, God will take from him his share in the tree of Life and the holy city described in this book” (emphasis mine).

That’s the problem of the Theology of David Barker because he just read it out of context. Did John refer to the Bible when He said “this BOOK” or “this BOOK OF PROPHECY”? Don’t you think that he must be referring only to the “Book of Revelation” itself which he had written? You have a deceitful spirit David, You want us to believe that we, Catholics, are adding to the words of God in the Bible when in fact it is you who are adding words which are not there. The Book of Revelation, just like the other scriptures, is a separate book in the beginning so to say that it refers to the whole Bible is an addition to the words written there. Don’t add the word “Bible”, David. It’s not written there. Sola Scriptura is a tradition taught only by Protestant reformers like John Calvin. All Protestants, like you, gladly followed this man-made tradition. One more thing David, cite scriptural references when you stress a point. You must be scriptural, right?

THE CHALLENGE

By the way, I need answers for the following questions which I raised in my previous reply:

How do you propose to answer if ask what are the basis for a letter (epistle) to be called scripture? How did they come up with 27 Books in the New Testament? Please cite scriptural references.

Please Stop acting like a child… Be a gentleman in dealing with these questions. Additionally, you haven’t answered my other questions and challenge: Was your church present before 1517, the year when the reformation started? Was it present before John Calvin? I don’t think so however if your answer is yes then give me some names of people or pastors of your church (or the real Christians as you would like to call yourself) during those times. Remember that the Church founded by Christ is already present from the time it has founded until the present time because Jesus said, “…and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (church)” (Mt 16:18 Dhouay-Rheims). He also said, “and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world” (Mt 28:20 Dhouay-Rheims). It implies that the church has an uninterrupted existence. It means that church he founded grew tremendously in other places outside Jerusalem. One of these places is Spain (Rom. 15:24;28) which brought Christianity in the Philippines. I know that it doesn’t make any sense to you, but for us, it really does. Only a man with so much pride cannot humbly accept that God wants all NATIONS (Philippines included) to be taught of Christianity and be baptized (Mt 28:19). Just like that proud man, the devil too feels the same way as he can’t and won’t accept that many people will come to know that Jesus is God and become Christians (Catholics). I hope you are not that man.