Alamin ang mga argumento ng bawat panig at kung paano inihayag ng isang Katoliko ang katotohanan na ang mga Sagradong Imahe ay hindi saklaw sa “prohibition” ng Diyos sa paggawa ng diyosdiyosan at paano mini-misrepresent ng isang Protestante ang Katoliko, Bibliya at ang utos sa paggawa at hindi paggawa ng Imahe sa OT. Ang mga salita ng Hindi Katoliko ay pula at ang mga salita ng Katoliko naman ay asul.

Salamat sa inyong pagbasa. May God bless us all.

Steven Jake Baker: Santo niño at nazareno payag bh si Cristo na gawan Siya ng larawang inanyoan at luhuran at sambahin?…

Talata lang ang isasagot wag sariling opinion…

Haring Felipe: Both the command and prohibition are not found in the New Testament. Ang tanong mo ay sariling opinion mo lang din dahil ito ay nag- eexpect na hindi niya (Jesus) gusto ang larawan na hindi rin naman mababasa kahit anong sitas ng NT.

So, mali kaagad ang tanong at request sa akin. Isa pa ang bibliya nga ay hindi nagclaim na basahin ng mananampalataya word for word ang lahat ng kaniyang paniniwala. Ang 27 books man ay hindi napili base sa talatang mababasa sa bibliya. So, nagkakamali ka talaga sa gusto mong palabasin sa tanong mo at sa gusto mong mangyari sa sagot ko.

Ang prohibition ay ibinigay sa mga israel, ang paggawa ng larawan ay ibinigay rin sa israel. bakit kailangang idagdag mo lang ang prohibition sa mga Kristiyano tapos ang command to make religious graven images ay hindi. Isa lang talaga ang punto, pumipili ka ng verses sa bibliya para pang atake lang.

The vision of Ezekiel of the future temple that are replete with graven images (Eze 41:17-26) proved my point, gusto ng Diyos na may mga religious images ang templo o bahay pagsamba (simbahan) sa mga Kristiyano. Wala namang nakatayong templo ngayon so refer talaga ito sa mga Simbahan. Tanong ko: simbahan o kapilya nyo ba may mga graven images ng kahit kerubin man lang?

Steven Jake Baker: Pinagbawal ng Dios gagawa ka ng rebulto at luhuran ito…

Kung gagawa ka ng rebulto pero hindi mo nmn ito linuluharan walang masama don gaya ng rebulto ni Rizal o sinong bayani…

Kung gumawa ka ng rebulto para lang sa design walang masama don pero kung gagawa ka ng rebulto at itoy linuluhuran yan ay mali na sa Bibliya…

Ako may mga laroan ako na na inanyoan walang masama don kasi hindi ko intensyonaly linuluharan para sambahin..
Yan pag.gawa ng rebulto para luhuran ay kaugalian yan ng mga romanong pagano na minana ninyo sa religion niyo galing sa romano.. Roma 1:23 At pinalitan nila ang kaluwalhatian ng Dios na hindi nasisira, ng isang katulad ng larawan ng tao na nasisira, at ng mga ibon, at ng mga hayop na may apat na paa, at ng mga nagsisigapang.
Common sense alam nila bawal ang rebulto.. Utos yun.

THE TEMPLE OF SOLOMON WITH THE BRAZEN SEA RESTED ON TWELVE OXEN (2CHRON 4:2-4)

Haring Felipe: Kung common sense ang gamitin mas lalong mali ang argumento mo. The house of worship or the temple are surrounded by graven images and the altars in the holy of holies have gigantic graven images of Cherubim with the graven images of smaller cherubim on the lid of the ark of the covenant (Exo. 25:19-20; 2Chron 3:10-13; 1Kings 6:29-35). Common sense, therefore, suggests that since the temple is surrounded by images the priests and the people of God must have been prostrating before them to pray to God. Joshua, in fact, bowed down before these images (Jos 7:6). So, it is absolutely your interpretation of scriptures that is problematic.

Again, the real interpretation why God did not allow the making of images because of idolatry. But he allowed the making of religious graven images for the people of God because it is not idolatry.

The etymology of idolatry comes from two words – idol and latria. St. Paul said that an Idol is without existence (1Cor 8:4). Saints, however, exist on earth while they were still alive and still continue to exist in heaven when they die. So, they are not idols. “Latria” means adoration which should be directed to God alone. And we don’t give the saints “latria”. However, we honor them and in Latin, it is “dulia”, not “latria”.

We know that honoring someone is not bad because the Bible said so. Jesus said “If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him” (Jn 12:26). The Father, of course, is not worshipping these people. Additionally, it says, “But God will give glory, HONOR and peace to whoever does good”(Rom 2:10). If someone has honor, what should we do as Christians? St. Paul answered, “to whom respect is due, give respect, to whom honor is due, give honor.”(Rom 13:7)

If secular society honors secular heroes, real Christians, on the other hand, honor the heroes of the faith – the Saints in Heaven. God gives them honor because they do good while they were still alive. Those who believe in God, therefore, should give honor to those whom God gives honor. Catholics honors them by making them graven images or statues that will serve as their monuments so that all generation of believers should remember the good things they have done for God and the faith. In this way, we can emulate them. St. Paul said, “Remember your leaders who taught you the word of God. Consider their end and IMMITATE their faith.” (Heb 13:7; emphasis mine)

We provided you with the correct Catholic understanding with regards to graven images. If you insist on your beliefs that we give the images “latria” then you are the one having this false faith not us. Be aware that it is not You who will judge us but our God, the right and just Judge, who knows the interior of our hearts and minds (1Sam 16:7).

Steven Jake Baker: Lumang tugtugin niyo na yan… Totoo nmn na sumasamba kayo sa diosdiosan.. Ang pagbigay pagsamba liban sa Dios ay pagsamba na yan sa diosdiosan.. Sinasamba nmn ninyo si Maria at Mga santo.. Nasa Catholic Encyclopedia niyo ngayan.. Worship of Hyperdulia at Worship of Dulia.. Im not accusing im exposing the truth here…

Haring Felipe: Greek doulia; Latin servitus term signifying the honour paid to the saints, while latria means worship given to God alone, and hyperdulia the veneration offered to the Blessed Virgin Mary.” [¹]

You are lying by misrepresenting the Catholic Encyclopedia. You are not only lying but you are also liable of bearing false witness against your neighbor (Exo 20:16).

What you are exposing here is not the truth but your ignorance, stupidity and clear misrepresentation of the Catholic teaching.

Sa mga argumento na mababasa sa itaas, pinipilit ni Jake ang kaniyang maling paniniwala tungkol sa Katoliko at sa mga Imahe. Ito ang mga sumusunod:

[“Lahat ng Imahe ay diyosdiyosan agad”] – Parang Sinabi ni Jake na diyosdiyosan ang pinagawa ni Solomon na mga Kerubin sa Bahay Pagsamba o templo at ang pangitaing ipinakita sa Diyos ni Ezekiel ay mga Imahe ng diyodiyosan sa templo. Ang tanong na hindi rin naman kayang sagutin ni Jake ay “Kung may mga imaheng nakapaligid sa loob ng templo?” Saan ka haharap para lang hindi masabing sinasamba mo ang mga ito?

[“Ang pagluhod sa harap ng isang bagay ay pagsamba sa bagay na iyon”] – Ito ay maling kaisipan dahil ang pagluhod at pagsamba ay talagang magkaiba base sa Bibliya. Si Josue ay Sumamba sa Harap ng Kaban ng Tipan na may mga Imahe ng Kerubin ngunit hindi siya sumamba sa buong kaban ng Tipan o sa mga Kerubin (Jos 7:6). Ang pagluhod ay pagluhod at ang pagsamba ay pagsamba. Pwedeng gawing magkasama ang dalawa ngunit pwede rin na lumuhod ka lang dahil ang kaharap mo ay ginagalang mo. Ang ginawa ni Josue o ng bayan ng Israel sa loob ng templo habang nakaharap sa mga Imahe ng Kerubin ay hindi pagsamba

Ang pagluhod ni Josue sa harap ng Kaban ng Tipan (Jos 7:6)

sa mga Imahe ngunit pagsamba sa Diyos na nasa langit. Nakalimutan mo ba ang prayer namin Jake, “Our Father, thou art in HEAVEN…” Realized that these words are not directed to whatever is in front of us.

[Kukuha ng sitas sa Bibliya ukol sa “Prohibition” in the OT dahil utos daw ng Diyos. At kung kukuha tayo ng sagot na inutos din ng Diyos sa OT ang religious images, sasabihin niya hindi na tayo kasali sa utos na iyon.] – ito ay maling kaisipan dahil lahat ng utos na iyon ay ibinigay lang din sa bayan ng Israel. Kung ating titingnang Mabuti ay, kung ibinigay ng Diyos ang lahat ng utos sa bayan ng Israel, e hindi rin kasali ang mga Krsitiyano sa lahat ng mga utos na yon, kasali na ang prohibition. Pero ano ang sabi ni San Pablo, “Put everything to the test and hold fast to what is good” (1Thes 5:21). The command of the Lord to make graven images for religious purpose is absolutely good. In the OT God shows that He can channel his graces through them. Why Jake doesn’t want us to hold fast on to it? If the OT shows that the temple is filled with them. Why prohibit our churches to have religious images?

So then, what law in the OT that continually binds us as followers of Christ? Siyempre ang moral law. Kaya nanatili ang lahat ng utos sa pamamagitan ng dalawang utos na ibinigay ng Panginoong Hesus, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength and with all your mind. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Lk 10:27) This is how Catholics interpret the OT. Even in the Commands of making religious graven images in the OT, we see to it the love of God and His creatures in Heaven. We love Him so much and we love the saints too because they are our neighbors and they are now creatures of heaven.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church beautifully speaks the teaching of the Church regarding sacred images this way:

“Nevertheless, already in the Old Testament, God ordained or permitted the making of images that pointed symbolically to­ward salvation by the incarnate Word: so it was with the bronze serpent, the ark of the covenant, and the cherubim.” [²]

The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes idols. Indeed, “the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,” and “whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it. The honor paid to sacred images is a “respectful veneration,” not the adoration due to God alone:

Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.” [³]

 

Reference:
[¹] http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05188b.htm
[²] CCC IV-2130, p. 516
[³] CCC IV-2132, p. 517