ST. JOHN PAUL THE GREAT celebrating the Holy Mass at Westminster Cathedral

 

Lapsed Man

Also on the “myth” that the Six protestant pastors are just observers has to be debunked, to deny their contributions is to deny the obvious that the Liturgy was Reformed.

Check this Catholic source: http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage_print.asp?number=385703&language=en

Let me put a short message from that site:

Fr. Bugnini stated that one of his intentions in designing the Novus Ordo was “to strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a
stumbling block for our separated brethren, that is, for the Protestants.” L’Osservatore Romano, March 19, 1965

Its also interesting to see the sentiment of the protestants involved with this commission. A Lutheran representative at the commission, Dr. Smith, said “We have finished the work that Martin Luther began.”

“Finished the work of Martin Luther, they say, What a statement!, and look at the pews at the church, Pews did not exist in the mass, at the council of Nicea I, it states that praying should be standing. The reformation changed this and show the effectiveness of the Pews, Another gift of the Reformation.

Also, taken from: https://forums.catholic.com/t/protestant-advisors-to-the-liturgical-reform/87409/5

“We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren, that is for the Protestants.”
(Archbishop Bugnini before the introduction of the Novus Ordo Missae, quoted in “Osservatore Romano”, March 19, 1965)

“The liturgical reform is a major conquest of the Catholic Church and has its ecumenical dimensions since the other churches and Christian denominations see in it not only something to be admired, but equally a sign of further progress to come.”
(Archbishop Bugnini after the introduction of the Novus Ordo Missae, quoted in “Notitiae”, No. 92, April 1974, p. 126)

“To tell the truth, it is a different liturgy of the Mass. This needs to be said without ambiguity. The Roman Rite as we knew it no longer exists. It has been destroyed.”
(Father Joseph Gelineau, Demain la Liturgie, Paris, 1976, p. 9-10)

“They (the Protestant ministers) were not simply there as observers, but as consultants as well, and they participate fully in the discussions on Catholic liturgical renewal. It wouldn’t mean much if they just listened, but they contributed.”
(Monsignor Baum, quoted in “The Detroit News”, June 27, 1967)

“Today’s liturgical study has brought our respective liturgies to a remarkable similarity, so that there is very little difference in the sacrificial phrasing of the prayer of oblation in the Series Three and that of Eucharistic Prayer II in the Missa Normativa (Novus Ordo Missae).”
(Dr. Ronald Jasper, Anglican Observer on the Consilium, quoted in the London “Catholic
Herald”, December 22, 1972)

This is the fact, The Priests of today should accept that the Liturgy is protestant based, its obvious, its not a lie. Even ask former protestant pastors who converted to the Catholic Church, they will say, it is the Protestant Liturgy.

 

 

The Splendor of the Church

In reply to Lapsed Man.

[Also on the “myth” that the Six protestant pastors are just observers has to be debunked, to deny their contributions is to deny the obvious that the Liturgy was Reformed.

Check this Catholic source: http://www.ewtn.com/v/experts/showmessage_print.asp?number=385703&language=en%5D

EXCUSE ME. THAT IS NOT AN OFFICIAL DOCUMENT OF THE CHURCH. THAT IS ONLY AN OPINION OF THOSE TRADITIONALISTS WHO CLAIM TO HAVE AUTHORITY. THE LITURGICAL COMMISSION OF POPE PAUL VI WAS COMPOSED BY CATHOLIC CARDINALS. NONE OF THEM PROTESTANTS SINCE PROTESTANTS HAS NO CARDINALS. HA HA HA… ARCHBISHOP BUGNINI WAS THE SECRETARY OF THAT COMMISSION. HE WAS A CATHOLIC EXPERT ORIGINALLY CHOSEN BY NO LESS THAN POPE PIUS XII.

THE HOLY MASS AS IT STANDS TODAY IS PURELY CATHOLIC. NOT A SINGLE ELEMENT OF IT CAME FROM PROTESTANTS. PLEASE FREE TO HALLUCINATE AGAIN. HA HA HA… PLEASE DON’T SERENADE US WITH SSPX PROPAGANDA AND LIES.

[Let me put a short message from that site:

Fr. Bugnini stated that one of his intentions in designing the Novus Ordo was “to strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a
stumbling block for our separated brethren, that is, for the Protestants.” L’Osservatore Romano, March 19, 1965]

ACTUALLY, THERE IS NO RECORD THAT ARCHBISHOP BUGNINI SAID THAT. THAT ALLEGED QUOTATION CAME FROM THE MALICIOUS ATTACKERS OF BUGNINI. HIS MALICIOUS ATTACKERS EXERTED EVERY MEANS TO DESTROY HIS REPUTATION BUT THE GOOD ARCHBISHOP REMAINED SILENT AS A LAMB, SIMPLY DID HIS DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES IN THE VATICAN AND AS PAPAL NUNCIO IN IRAN.

THAT IS PLAIN HALLUCINATION AGAIN. BECAUSE THE NOVUS ORDO MASS IS FULL OF CATHOLIC PRAYERS FROM BEGINNING UNTIL THE END. HA HA HA… WHO AMONG THE PROTESTANT SECTS CELEBRATE THE NOVUS ORDO MASS AS IT IS? HE HE HE THE LUTHERANS? HELLO… YOU ARE NOT ONLY HALLUCINATING BUT DELUSIONAL AT BEST. HA HA HA…

[Its also interesting to see the sentiment of the protestants involved with this commission. A Lutheran representative at the commission, Dr. Smith, said “We have finished the work that Martin Luther began.”]

REALLY? HOW COME LUTHER DIDN’T CELEBRATE THE NOVUS ORDO MASS? HA HA HA… SINCE WHEN DID LUTHER AND THE LUTHERANS CELEBRATE THE NOVUS ORDO? WHEN? WHERE? IN HELL? HA HA HA… PLEASE TELL THAT TO THE MARINES OR TO THE AIR FORCE. HA HA HA…

THE PROTESTANT SCHOLARS WERE THERE AS OBSERVERS. THEY ARE:

…the Consilium enlisted the help of these PROTESTANT OBSERVERSrotestant observers:

  1. A. Raymond George (Methodist)
  2. Ronald Jaspar (Anglican)
  3. Massey Shepherd (Episcopalian)
  4. Friedrich Künneth (Lutheran)
  5. Eugene Brand (Lutheran)
  6. Max Thurian (Calvinist-community of Taize)

WELL, IF YOU ARE IGNORANT OF THIS FACT LET ME INFORM YOU THAT THE CALVINIST FROM TAIZE MAX THURIAN BECAME CATHOLIC. HA HA HA… HE WAS CONVERTED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND WAS ORDAINED A ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST. HA HA HA…

[“Finished the work of Martin Luther, they say, What a statement!,]

UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU, THAT SMITH MUST BE AS FOOLISH AS YOU ARE. HE IS DREAMING UNDER HIS TOILET BOWL. HA HA HA… THAT DR. SMITH WAS NEVER A MEMBER OF THE LITURGICAL COMMISSION OF POPE PAUL VI THAT MADE THE NOVUS ORDO MASS. MAY BE HE WAS PART OF THE DIALOGUE COMMISSION FOR CHRISTIAN UNITY. HA HA HA… WE DO NOT EVEN KNOW HIM. WHO IS THE ANIMAL AGAIN? HE IS NOT ONE OF OUR CARDINALS.

[ and look at the pews at the church, Pews did not exist in the mass, at the council of Nicea I, it states that praying should be standing. The reformation changed this and show the effectiveness of the Pews, Another gift of the Reformation.]

THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS INVENTED CHAIRS AND PEWS EVEN BEFORE THE PROTESTANTS DID. BESIDES, THE USE OF CHAIRS OR PEWS IS NOT DOCTRINAL. HA HA HA THAT IS A MATTER OF DESIGN AND PRACTICAL USE. DON’T BE HYPOCRITE. MANY PROTESTANT CHURCHES ARE USING THE GOTHIC STYLE FOR YOUR CHAPELS AND CHURCHES. THAT IS IMITATING THE CATHOLICS. GOTHIC ARCHITECTURE IS CATHOLIC IN ORIGIN. HA HA HA… ALSO MANY PROTESTANT CHURCHES ARE IMITATING THE CATHOLIC STAINED GLASSES, CROSSES ON TOP OF THE HOUSES OF WORSHIPS. THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT YOU ALSO IMITATED FROM US. PLEASE STOP THE HYPOCRISY AND DO NOT REGAL ME WITH YOUR LITURGICAL STUPIDITY. YOUR CLAIM IS SICKENING. HA HA HA… IT MIGHT MAKE US VOMIT AT DINNER TIME. HA HA HA… THAT IS NOT HEALTHY. HA HA HA…

[Also, taken from: https://forums.catholic.com/t/protestant-advisors-to-the-liturgical-reform/87409/5

“We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren, that is for the Protestants.”
(Archbishop Bugnini before the introduction of the Novus Ordo Missae, quoted in “Osservatore Romano”, March 19, 1965)]

HA HA HA… THAT IS PREPOSTEROUS. ARCHBISHOP BUGNINI ADDED MORE CATHOLIC PRAYERS IN THE LITURGY. THERE ARE SUPER MANY FEASTS OF SAINTS IN NOVUS ORDO WHO FOUGHT THE PROTESTANTS. HA HA HA… THERE ARE A LOT OF MARIAN FEASTS IN NOVUS ORDO SUCH AS THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION AND THE ASSUMPTION OF MARY THAT MANY PROTESTANTS DO NOT LIKE. HA HA HA… DO THE PROTESTANTS CELEBRATE NOVUS ORDO MASS FOR IMMACULATE CONCEPTION OF MARY? OR FEAST OF OUR LADY OF GUADALUPE IN NOVUS ORDO? HA HA HA… PLEASE, PLEASE… DON’T MAKE US LAUGH THROUGH YOUR PATHETIC CLAIMS. HA HA HA…

[“The liturgical reform is a major conquest of the Catholic Church and has its ecumenical dimensions since the other churches and Christian denominations see in it not only something to be admired, but equally a sign of further progress to come.”
(Archbishop Bugnini after the introduction of the Novus Ordo Missae, quoted in “Notitiae”, No. 92, April 1974, p. 126)]

THE NOVUS ORDO IS TRULY A PROGRESS. BUT IT IS VERY CATHOLIC AND NO ELEMENT OF IT IS PROTESTANT. HA HA HA… TRY TO CELEBRATE THE NOVUS ORDO DAILY IN LUTHERAN CHURCHES. TELL THEM TO DO IT. THEY WILL BECOME CATHOLIC IN DUE TIME. HA HA HA…

THE NOVUS ORDO IS NOT A PROTESTANT VICTORY BUT A CATHOLIC VICTORY. FOR THE PAST 20 YEARS THE JOURNEY HOME PROGRAM OF EWTN HAS LISTED THOUSANDS OF PROTESTANT PASTORS AND MINISTERS BEING CONVERTED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THEIR TESTIMONIES ARE BEING AIRED AGAIN AND AGAIN IN NEW EPISODES WEEK AFTER WEEK. THESE CONVERTED PASTORS ARE NOW THE BEST OF THE BEST CATHOLIC APOLOGISTS IN THE UNITED STATES AND IN BRITAIN DEBATING AND WRITING IN DEFENSE OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND HER DOCTRINES. SO DREAM ON. HA HA HA

[“To tell the truth, it is a different liturgy of the Mass. This needs to be said without ambiguity. The Roman Rite as we knew it no longer exists. It has been destroyed.”
(Father Joseph Gelineau, Demain la Liturgie, Paris, 1976, p. 9-10)]

SORRY FOR HIM. BUT THE NOVUS ORDO IS ONE OF THE LITURGICAL RITES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. ONLY A FOOL WILL DENY THAT. HA HA HA… IT IS ONE OF THE RITES OF THE HOLY MASS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH BEING CELEBRATED IN THOUSANDS OF CATHOLIC CHURCHES ALL OVER THE WORLD. NO PROTESTANTS CELEBRATE THAT. IF THEY DO SO THEY WILL BE CONVERTED TO THE CATHOLIC FAITH. HA HA HA… BECAUSE THE NOVUS ORDO IS ANTIDOTE TO PROTESTANT HERESIES. HA HA HA…

[“They (the Protestant ministers) were not simply there as observers, but as consultants as well, and they participate fully in the discussions on Catholic liturgical renewal. It wouldn’t mean much if they just listened, but they contributed.”
(Monsignor Baum, quoted in “The Detroit News”, June 27, 1967)]

THEY ARE THERE IN DIALOGUE. BUT THEY ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THE LITURGICAL COMMISSION. NO NO NO… EVEN NOW THE POPE TALKS WITH PROTESTANT LEADERS BUT THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO VOTE IN CATHOLIC COUNCIL OR SYNOD. NO NO NO… DREAM ON.

[“Today’s liturgical study has brought our respective liturgies to a remarkable similarity, so that there is very little difference in the sacrificial phrasing of the prayer of oblation in the Series Three and that of Eucharistic Prayer II in the Missa Normativa (Novus Ordo Missae).”
(Dr. Ronald Jasper, Anglican Observer on the Consilium, quoted in the London “Catholic
Herald”, December 22, 1972)]

THAT IS STUPID. YOU SEE…. YOU YOURSELF PROVES OUR POINT: Dr. Ronald Jasper, Anglican Observer on the Consilium. THEY ARE OBSERVERS. AND BECAUSE THEY OBSERVED ONE OF THEM BECAME CATHOLIC. HA HA HA…

PLEASE READ THE EUCHARISTIC PRAYER II PIECE BY PIECE, LINE BY LINE. THERE IS NO SINGLE ELEMENT OF PROTESTANT THEOLOGY THEREIN. ALL CATHOLIC THEOLOGY. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. THE DOGMA OF TRANSUBSTANTIATION IS THERE. THE MASS AS A SACRIFICE AND OBLATION IS THERE. THE VIRGIN MARY IS MENTIONED AS WELL AS THE NAME OF THE POPE. VERY VERY CATHOLIC. HA HA HA… DREAM ON AGAIN.

[This is the fact, The Priests of today should accept that the Liturgy is protestant based, its obvious, its not a lie. Even ask former protestant pastors who converted to the Catholic Church, they will say, it is the Protestant Liturgy.]

WE DO NOT ACCEPT ANY MASS THAT IS PROTESTANT BASED. OUR MASS IS BASED ON APOSTOLIC TRADITION OF THE CHURCH AS PROMULGATED BY OUR POPE. THE NOVUS ORDO SORRY FOR YOU IS VERY VERY CATHOLIC FROM BEGINNING UNTIL THE END. IT IS JUST THE SIMPLIFIED VERSION OF THE TRIDENTINE MASS. PIECE BY PIECE, LINE BY LINE. HA HA HA…